Meikles & Dimes

220: Think About Tradeoffs | Notre Dame Professor Adam Wowak

Adam Wowak is a Professor of Management & Organization in the Mendoza College of Business at the University of Notre Dame where he teaches strategic management to MBA and Ph.D. students.

Adam's research focuses on strategic leadership and corporate governance. His work has appeared in top-tier academic journals, including Administrative Science Quarterly, Academy of Management Review, Academy of Management Journal, Strategic Management Journal, and Organization Science. His research has also been profiled in media outlets such as The Atlantic, Financial Times, Forbes, NBC News, New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal, among others.

Adam received both his bachelor’s degree and Ph.D. from Penn State University.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• When Adam graduated college, he had a prestigious job as an investment banker. It paid well. It was intellectually challenging. He liked the people he was working with. But he wasn’t excited to work every day. He didn’t have autonomy. And he didn’t have creative outlets. So he thought about the tradeoffs he was making by staying. He then considered the  tradeoffs he would make by leaving. By thinking about tradeoffs, Adam gained clarity on what mattered most to him. He ultimately chose to leave banking and found his way to academia, which has its own set of tradeoffs, but ones that Adam is happier with.
• As Adam tells his students, there are three types of careers people can have. One they love. One they hate. And one they’re okay with, in the murky middle. And it’s this third kind of career that people need to watch out for so that they don’t drift, and wake up 20 years later realizing they should have thought more carefully about the tradeoffs they were making.
• Remember to think about the tradeoffs we’re making, both when we stick with the status quo and when we decide to change. 

 

Connect on Social Media:

X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nate.meikle

219: Imagine Our Prized Cup Is Already Broken | Brad Johnson on Entrepreneurship and Dealing with Setbacks

Brad Johnson is the Co-founder of Triad Partners, an organization that helps financial advisors grow their businesses. Before co-founding Triad, Brad spent 13 years at Advisors Excel as a VP of Advisor Development, coaching top financial advisors who managed over $1.5 billion in assets. Brad is also the host of the podcast, Do Business. Do Life, where he interviews thought leaders and helps financial advisors integrate their work and personal lives. Raised on a farm in Kansas, Brad’s personal interests include CrossFit, bass fishing, collecting red wine, and supporting children's charities.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• I love the Stoic lesson Brad shared about the prized cup. If we expect our prized cup to never break, we’ll be devastated when it does. But if we’ve already been through the mental exercise of the cup breaking, it can be much easier to stay calm and confident when our prized cups do break.
• Being an entrepreneur is constantly dealing with broken, prized cups.
• I loved hearing how Brad tries to apply Jocko’s advice for dealing with setbacks by responding with a simple “Good.”
• Brad’s emphasis on seeking out mindset coaching stood out. The best athletes get the most coaching. So it makes sense that we too need regular feedback and mindset coaching to reach our potential.
• By jumping into the trench himself, Brad is giving himself more opportunities to deal with broken cups. And I love his advice for how we can deal with the broken cups in our lives.

 

Connect on Social Media:

X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nate.meikle

218: How Vivek Viswanathan Worked His Way to the White House

Vivek Viswanathan is one of the brightest, kindest, most thoughtful individuals I have ever known. A son of immigrant parents, Vivek excelled in school attending Harvard, Cambridge, and Stanford. He then excelled in business, working for McKinsey (kind of) and Kleiner Perkins. Then Vivek excelled in politics working for Governor Brown, Governor Newsom, Hilary Clinton’s presidential campaign, and eventually serving as Special Assistant to the President of the United States. In this episode we walk through Vivek’s career progression as well as some of the lessons he learned along the way. We also discuss the following:

• While I was intrigued by so many things in this interview, starting with how high-school Vivek preferred policy camp to sports camp, I was especially intrigued by Vivek’s perspective on living an integrated life: combining our values and passions, and then spending time with people who reflect those values.
• Vivek is a master at building and maintaining relationships, and then constantly striving to learn all he can from others.
• While Vivek's professional achievements are remarkable, I’m most impressed by his commitment to doing good in the world.
• As Vivek reminded us, to achieve anything worthwhile in life, we have to work really hard, all the while accepting the uncontrollable.

 

Connect on Social Media:

X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nate.meikle

217: The Best Leaders Are Tough & Kind | Cincinnati Business School Dean Marianne Lewis on Leadership Paradoxes

Marianne Lewis is dean of the University of Cincinnati College of Business, and she previously served as dean of Bayes Business School at City, University of London. Marianne researches organizational paradoxes, including the tensions surrounding leadership and innovation. She has been recognized among the world’s most-cited researchers in her field, having won numerous academic awards, and her work also appears in media outlets, such as Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, and Newsweek. Her latest book, Both/And Thinking is published by Harvard Business School Press.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• I love Marianne’s insight that the best leaders are not tough or kind, but rather both.  Toughness and kindness are not opposite ends of a spectrum but rather two sides of the same coin. And any leader who pushes too hard on one, while ignoring the other, will not reach their potential.
• And I thought it was especially interesting to hear about the creative geniuses who also appreciated tension and paradoxes: motion vs rest, particle vs wave, harmony vs discord, light vs. dark, life vs death. The magic is in the tension.
• When it comes to leadership the best leaders are both tough and kind.

Connect on Social Media:

X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nate.meikle

216: NIL Attorney Darren Heitner | Continually Challenge Yourself to Be a Student

Darren Heitner is a nationally recognized attorney who specializes in sports and entertainment law. And most recently Darren has become one of the nation’s experts on NIL (name, image, and likeness). His client list is a who’s who of professional sports, including athletes and coaches such as Terrell Owens, Johnny Manziel, Randy Moss, Tyreek Hill, Manny Ramirez, Draymond Green, and Rick Pitino, to name just a few.

Darren earned both his BA and JD from the University of Florida, where he was also a Valedictorian. 

In this episode we discuss the following:

• Darren’s goal to remember why he’s doing it: to help his clients. And one way he does that is by continually challenging himself to be a student. When NFTs exploded onto the scene, Darren learned all he could and became an NFT expert. As NIL transactions ramped up, so did Darren, becoming one of the go-to attorneys for everything related to NIL. Rather than fear new technologies, Darren gets excited by them and then learns all he can about them.

Connect on Social Media:

X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nate.meikle

215: “The More Elite the Player, The More Coaching They Get” | Martin Dubin on Leadership and Self-Awareness

Martin Dubin is a clinical psychologist, serial entrepreneur, business coach, and adviser to C-suite executives and Silicon Valley entrepreneurs. Marty is also the author of the book Blindspotting: How To See What’s Holding You Back as a Leader.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• It’s interesting to hear Marty describe how leaders’ weaknesses are often just the flip side of their strengths. The leader who works hard, and sends emails at 2 am, might be unintentionally modeling a standard that isn’t possible for others to achieve. I also loved Marty’s advice for leaders to prioritize the things that only they can do. And lastly, I was especially intrigued by Marty’s point that the most elite performers get the most coaching.

 

Connect on Social Media:

X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nate.meikle

 

214: National Surfing Champion Saxon Baltzer | Sacrifice, Persistence, & Passion

Saxon Baltzer, from Huntington Beach California, is a surfer, musician, and skateboarder. And Saxon recently won the National Scholastic Surfing Association Championship. In this episode we discuss the following:

• I’m truly inspired by Saxon’s drive and commitment. Though he started to surf at age two, it was his commitment in high school that set him up for his national championship. Waking up early each weekday to first attend seminary, and then get to the beach, Saxon refined his skill while also learning to surf all kinds of waves. And he was also flexible, willing to focus on long boarding to get on his high school team.
• And what a wild story about his national competition: forgetting his board, borrowing his coach’s, nailing a buzzer beater on Saturday, saying a prayer to find his board, finding it with Dimitri, and then landing another clutch buzzer beater on Sunday for the national championship.
• And most remarkably, Saxon is now giving up surfing for two years and moving across the country to share a gospel message in hopes of helping others.
• As Saxon so perfectly demonstrates, sacrifice, persistence, and passion are key to success.

 

Connect on Social Media:

X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nate.meikle

213: Becoming a Better Listener Every Day of Our Life | Professor Avi Kluger

Avi Kluger is a professor of Organizational Behavior at Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Avi was born in Tel Aviv to Holocaust survivors and is married with three children. And he is also a grandfather.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• I was touched by Avi’s vulnerability in sharing how listening has saved his life—twice. After his daughter died by suicide, it was the listening community that Avi had cultivated that helped him carry on, even as his pain and sorrow endured. One friend, in particular, asked Avi to recount the last day he spent with his daughter—and then told him she’d listen to that story 100 more times if he needed to.
• Listening saved Avi again during an exercise where he realized he’d spent five years on a project simply to prove a point, rather than because he valued it. That moment launched Avi’s mission to become a better listener every day of his life.
• I was especially intrigued by how Avi doesn’t dwell on people’s listening mistakes. Instead, he helps them discover how to improve. And he extends the same compassion to himself when he falls short.  He simply notices and praises his awareness. 
• I was impressed by how present Avi was with me, encouraging me to take my time and then referenced earlier parts of our conversation, demonstrating that he truly heard me. 
• Because of this conversation, I have adopted Avi’s goal: to become a better listener every day. And because of this interview, Avi will soon be coming to Kansas to teach a listening seminar, and I cannot wait to learn more from him.
• When someone truly listens, it creates a magical space-- a meeting of the minds where ideas emerge that could not have been reached alone.

 

 

Connect on Social Media:

X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nate.meikle

212: Moving to China with Five Children | Professor David Hunsaker

Dave Hunsaker is a business professor at Indiana University in the Kelley School of Business where he researches negotiation, teams, and leadership. Dave earned his PhD from the University of Utah and both an MPA and BA from Brigham Young University.

In this episode we discuss the following:

How impressed I am with Dave and Melissa and their ability to face the uncertainty and challenges of moving to China with five kids, something that the system in China is not designed for. From three-hour entrance exams, two-hour daily commutes, and 16-hour days for their children, I can only imagine how difficult this was. And then of course they faced the risk of being separated from their children if any of them ever tested positive for COVID.

And I was especially intrigued by things I learned about China. Getting into a great first grade can be more difficult than getting into college. To reduce the pressure on kindergartners, teaching math was prohibited at schools. But then parents hired tutors to teach math to the kindergartners outside of school, often creating more stress. Many Chinese students are essentially forced to drop out of high school by 9^th grade. And Chinese culture doesn’t always reward problem solving so much as it rewards following rules.

Finally I love the lesson Dave shared about what he learned. It’s important to hold off on judgements, because our assumptions about people are often wrong. However, people are generally pretty reasonable once we understand why they’re doing what they’re doing.

 

Connect on Social Media:

X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nate.meikle

211: How to Use Both/And Thinking | Professor Wendy Smith

Wendy Smith is an award-winning business professor at the University of Delaware, where she also serves as Co-director of the Women’s Leadership Initiative.

Wendy’s research focuses on strategic paradoxes – how leaders and senior teams effectively respond to contradictory agendas. Her research has been published in top-tier academic journals and her book, Both/And Thinking, was published by Harvard Business School Press in 2022.

Wendy earned her Ph.D. in organizational behavior at Harvard Business School.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• When we view our challenges through an either/or lens, we limit our options, often leading to suboptimal decisions. Both/and thinking, on the other hand, enhances creativity leading to better outcomes.
• Take fairness, for example. Some argue it means treating everyone the same. Others believe it requires treating people differently to ensure comparable outcomes. Both views have merit and represent a classic paradox. And this is where Wendy’s process if helpful. First, notice the paradox, notice the either/or. And then change the frame to see if we can accomplish both. Is there a win/win that allows us to do both right now? I love Wendy’s mule analogy here—the mule, a hybrid of horse and donkey, represents the power of combining two different paths. And if we can’t do both at once, maybe we can do both over time. Wendy’s tightrope metaphor was excellent. A tightrope walker stays balanced by making continuous, slight adjustments as they move forward.
• If we stick to either/or thinking we risk getting trapped, incapable of adapting when context changes.

 

Connect on Social Media:

X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nate.meikle